Now Is the summer/autumn/winter of our discontent

The more I think about it. The more I reckon I’m just what the Labour Party needs. A true working class socialist to turn the ship around. Look at them, Blair, barrister QC, Harriet Harperson, Barrister, Starmer Uber Big Wig Barrister. They don’t understand the needs of the working man, the nurses, the road sweepers. They need a true salt of the earth old fashioned socialist like me to sort them out.

That’s it. A new brand of conservative socialists. Tough on crime and illegal immigration. Renationalise the power and rail industries. Support the workers. Free university places/education for all. Public executions.

keep the red/blue flag flying.

 

It is simply that you are not aware of how the system functions. Those newly called to the bar often have to rely on cadging lifts in to chambers, the clerk will try to assist and allocate cases ( generally magistrates stuff) at the local court. The fees for these cases are appalling , hence the £9k- £12k figure after expenses but pre tax. Often there may not be enough work so perhaps just one “job” in the morning. As they progress and earn a reputation then they may have 3 or 4 briefs in the magistrates then they may start to get slightly better work , often out of town, their income starts to rise but so does their expenses. Don’t know what you mean by “ can’t legally trade whilst insolvent” they aren’t trading. They are self employed, and there is nothing illegal about their expenses outweighing their income. Most live on major overdrafts and loans to tide them over. Problem now is the rates of LA make the transition from subsisting just to earning a living pretty impossible.
You clearly are entrenched in your opinion, it’s just based on a misunderstanding of the reality of that section of the profession that does legal aid work.

 

ok I get it. What you are describing is the reality of every trainee plumber, electrician, tiler, roofer, brickie. What you appear to be saying is that when they are newly qualified that they earn crap money cos they have no reputation. Well no s@@t. So does every newly qualified tradesman. I don’t know a single one that doesn’t need to get a lift to the job cos they are broke by weds. My mates apprentice earns £50 a day and he’s been plumbing four years.

the trading whilst insolvent is a simple concept. If they are self employed then they are either sole traders, limited companies or partnerships. They clearly can’t be paye. If they know from their accounts that their outgoings are consistently greater than their income, they are insolvent, as there is a real danger that if the carry on then they might not be able to honour their commitments to creditors, as you say those wigs ain’t cheap. At this point they are insolvent. Once you become aware of this, it’s illegal to continue to trade, that’s when the administrators come in and I’d hope they ain’t a sole trader at that point, or let’s hope they know a good lawyer.

 

So far I think we have established that at say £50 an hour for labour, a tradesperson may actually take home more than a barrister can charge to do legal aid for one day, if they charge 4 hours time..

So I will propose that all tradesmen visiting houses will be employed by a council , will not be allowed to take cash but instead be paid a fixed daily rate of £200 defined nationally, if they do work on a given day.

 

I’d go for that. £1000 a week summer or winter. Sign me up cos my work drops off a cliff in June/July/august. I will happily pop out and do a quick £60 service every morning if you’re gonna pay me £200 a day to do it.

 

You clearly don’t “ get it” a barrister as a sole trader ( he cannot limit his liability save in very limited situations ) may become bankrupt. I knew of 2 barristers to whom this happened. They had to obtain permission of the Bar Council to continue to practice. Insolvency does not apply.

 

Wasn't defending anyone. I said I went on strike for more pay for nurses and to read up on the things you are ranting about.

 

And what percentage of these legal aid/starting-out barristers stay legal aid barristers? I'd guess that not many, unless they are either:

a) of high moral/ethical fibre willing to forego the remuneration of others in the name of justice for all.
b) crap

 

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/06/27/the-criminal-bar-on-strike-9-things-you-need-to-know/

Worth reading as usual….

 

An article defending striking barristers.

Written by a striking barrister.

 

Ok Rusty We want to hear your Manifesto ..Nipper

Tax the richest has been tried before

 

Nowadays legal aid is very restricted and crime is one of the main fields we’re it is still available, hence barristers who wish to do criminal defence work always tended to stay as criminal defence barristers.If this has been your day to day work then it is not that easy to suddenly decide…..oh I think I’ll change to family law, or litigation . It’s possible but seldom happened in the past . Nowadays I don’t know whether those leaving are changing speciality or going outside of the bar.
Don’t forget that QC’s defending in eg murder cases are paid at legal aid rates ( unless the defendant has means )

 

But once you get established eg complete your low paid apprenticeship like lots of normal people, it must open the doors to very lucrative paid work from those defendants who have means?

In the interviews on TV I've yet to hear an accent that didn't grow up eating lunch at dinner time and dinner at tea time. They probably had supper as well.....?

 

And? Have you read it ?

 

your first point….their apprenticeship or pupillage is unpaid.

your second point is puerile.

 

Yes, all nine points. and I ask again, how many stay in the legal aid side once their apprenticeship is completed and the door opens to move around chambers with private client lists?

I earned about £30 a week as an apprentice electrician, no fuel allowance or away from home meals to claim for. I stuck at it to get my City & Guilds, then I moved on to better paying jobs in different areas of the trade, like most others did.

 

So from what backgrounds can junior barristers be from if they are unpaid apprenticeships, are they doing paper rounds and cleaning jobs in between court appearances? There must be some form of support available, be it from the firm they are employed with, or from their family backgrounds. Or are you suggesting they literally have no income for the duration of their apprenticeship?

And secondly - purile you may think, but from the coverage I'd say accurate.....

 

I’d also just like to point out that on ITV news this evening, their lengthy report on the subject of the strike says that an average barrister earns 64k AFTER expenses. Their words, not mine. So this line about how they can’t survive after paying out for travel and food, like everyone else simply doesn’t hold water. What they are complaining about is that they don’t earn vast sums of money the second they are qualified, well neither does anyone else.

id also like to add that at least two of the barristers homes that I regularly visit have cinemas in them, one also has a very nice indoor pool, tennis courts and a gymnasium. I go into about 500 houses a year. I’m yet to go into a nurses house that’s got a pool or a cinema.

I stand by my original point. Public servants who are already earning 60k+ should not be striking and demanding 25% pay increases whilst other equally or more important public servants earn far less. The barristers have already turned down an offer of 15% according to ITV this evening. How many public servants on here have got a 15% pay rise this year?

With regards to the earlier point that the RMT don’t represent train drivers. This is lifted directly from the RMT website “RMT is the union for traincrew, including drivers, Guards and other on-board staff.” Why should a nurse be taking a three grand PAY CUT and the RMT be calling strike action to get more money for drivers earning over 60k.

 

First point. They are from varied backgrounds . I have been retired for 20years but pupils then would lecture in colleges, night schools, work in restaurants…..you know, the usual things. Barristers aren’t employed by “firms” either in pupillage or later. Obviously some, perhaps many have family support.
I qualified as a solicitor in 1983, my dad was a sheet metal worker at Stanlow refinery and Cammell lairds. ( on strike a lot against his wishes ) I had to do 4 years articles before qualifying as I came from a HND building background. I was paid £15 per week by the solicitors firm in Liverpool . After work I lectured building to ONC students , at weekends I worked on building sites to get by. Not all lawyers are from privileged backgrounds.
Media are lazy and will seek to portray a particular take on things, you have clearly been taken in by it.

 

Windmills of your mind.
Great song