Bay window afterlife, the T2C story. An ongoing history of the bus that refused to die!

To most of us living in the west, certainly before the advent of the internet anyway, to all intents and purposes the Type 2 bay window model was finally laid to rest in 1979. By that time, it had long since evolved into it's final T2b form. After an 11 year run, it had had a good innings, not as long as it's T1, split screen predecessors run of 17 years mind, but still longer than most vehicle production runs.

So the king was dead, to be replaced by the Type2, T3. Long live the new king! The T3 would go on to be produced for western markets for the next 10 years, by which time the Type 2, cab forward, rear engine design, still fundamentally similar to the original dating back to late 1949 was finally laid to rest in favour of the soulless front engined style vans we know today.

The Type 2, T3 (T25 UK, Vanagon US) Last evolution of the rear engined breed:



But... The Type 2 wasn't actually quite ready to die back in 1979 and would, astonishingly, go on to live in South American markets for an additional 34 years! It was finally laid to rest due to new safety requirements in it's last market of Brazil. Even then, due to it's ongoing popularity and VW's strong political influence in the country, it very nearly got granted an exemption to continue production beyond 2014! Truly a hard beast to kill!

An example of a late 2013 "Last Edition" Kombi, one of the last to be built worldwide:



This will be the ongoing story of the bay window bus, way beyond it's death in the west. We'll look at it's evolution, and sometimes it's devolution, over the decades that followed.

The first chapter will be Mexico, beginning with parallel development to German buses from the start of it's production there in the early 70's, until 1979. Then it get's a little interesting, and different!

Stay tuned...

 

(Some of my dates may be slightly off here, so bear with me, I'll correct over time where needed!)

Mexico

Bay window production started in Mexico around 1973. They never had the prototype bay, starting out with the T2B model. Until production ended in Germany, they were almost identical to German bays, barring differences in trim, upholstery and the like.

1977 Mexican Combi:



After German production ceased, Mexican bays continued almost the same for a while. The 1981 models new bumper style is the only noticeable difference:



Mexican buses continued to use the 1600 european style engine throughout their aircooled era, they didn't get the larger US pancake engines.

We fast forward now to 1988 and the first major change to the Mexican bus, still the T2B body at this stage, but now with a water cooled 1800cc engine, similar to the water cooled car range of the time.

Many of us who had an 80's VW or Audi car will be very familiar with this engine:



The look of the body is starting to evolve a little at this stage with the new radiator upfront and new, plastic, cladding over the bumpers. The wheels are the same under the trims seen here, only used for the caravelle model, other models still keep the original style bubcaps.



At this point in time, all the body metalwork barring changes to the front panel for the new radiator, remains unchanged, with bulkhead and walkthrough versions available. Bulkhead panel van shown:



Inside we see a newer style steering wheel, plush upholstery, and a slight evolution to the instrumentation, with a new digital clock and rectangular fuel gauge. Additional warning lights are now incorporated into the Mexican Beetle style speedometer.



Moving on a few more years to 1991 and the Mexican bus gets it's biggest change to the body to date with a move to the T2C body. This includes a raised roof panel by approx. 10cm. The T2C no longer has walkthrough or bulkhead versions, just the one version with the complete removal of any bulkhead or metalwork behind the front seats on all models.

The new T2C in top Caravelle trim:



Inside, just small triangles of reinforcement replace any bulkhead metalwork and the wheel well rear closing panel is now simplified and flat. Still very plush throughout in Caravelle trim, and now with all new dash instrumentation and switchgear, from the contemporary 80's water cooled VW car parts bin:



And a larger evolution to the look of the front cabin, now with an extensive new upper dash pad and lower cladding added, giving a much more refined look:



And that was about it for the evolution of the Mexican Combi. It carried on through (around) 1994 then production ceased. Other points to note were the later, Mexican market specific door mirrors and side mounted antenna. Somewhere during the late eighties or very early 90's the engine also got an upgrade from carb to electronic single point fuel injection. The link below is to the brochure for the last Mexican bay window in it's final form.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/95bus_mexico.php

During (again approx!) 1995 the Mexican T2C production line was dismantled and shipped off to VW of Brazil to be set up, giving them the first major update to their version of the bay since 1976, but that's part of the next installment of the story.

Hope you found this interesting, next we'll head further south and have a look at the very different, weird and wonderful evolution that occurred to the Brazilian Kombi's.

 

Enjoyable read.
It was all going fine before they raised the roof.

 

Yeah, I like the original roofline too, but headroom is much better in the T2C's and it grows on you after a while. Any camper conversion with a lifting roof ends up losing the classic look as well!

 

Some loose it completely, that's true, in which case I will agree that the roof mod is fine as long as you completely cover it up.

 

I’ll go with it feels more airy….but taller people surely end up stooping to see out?

 

Lets head south to our next destination of Brazil...

The story of the Brazilian Type 2 started much earlier than in Mexico, way back in the early '50's with complete knock down kits sent over from Wolfsburg and assembled locally. Then in 1957, VW of Brazil started home grown production in the new plant at São Bernardo do Campo, where it would continue all the way through to December 2013. Initially the Brazilian Type 2, T1, continued pretty much in parallel with the German version with slight local variations, until 1963. From '64 though, it diverged from the German version which got the modified body with new wider tailgate, the Brazilian version continuing on with the earlier body style. When Germany finished T1 production in 1967, Brazil continued with the split screen model right up to 1975.

And that brings us up to the bay window era in Brazil (Well sort of!)

And here it is, the 1976 Brazilian bay window Kombi, just like the German one eh?:



Well not quite, so what's this? It appears to still mainly be a pre '64 T1 splitty!!:



A strange beast indeed, Late bay front panels and crash structure to the B pillars, Bay roof, & bay rear lights grafted into an otherwise entirely pre'64 split body and running gear, what??!!

From the rear, lights aside and 20mm or so of extra metal above the windows to "lift" the roof line to match up with the slightly higher bay cab, you could be forgiven for thinking it's a split:



You'll note initially there was no passenger side door mirror. No headlining, basic rubber floor matting, basic door cards. These were spartan buses alright.

So what actually are they? Well they're a hybrid, unofficially known as a T1.5.

At some point, around 1982 they switched to the later bay wheels, but continued almost unchanged right through to 1996.

Except, there was also a rather unique option available for a time, although I'm not sure what years this one was available. Behold the weird and wonderful 6 door, available as a special order!:



Late model T1.5 Clipper, note the additional front door pressing, this got added around 1994:



Also note, the unique Brazilian version of the later hub caps now in use, when they switched to the later wheel type. Rather than continue with the existing German design, for some reason, they developed their own slight variation.

German vs Brazilian caps:



Along the way the trusty old 1600 engine got a twin carb upgrade, electronic ignition, & a catalytic converter.



None of these buses had any form of heating at all, note the lack of heat ducting in the cab:



The dash remained very similar to the German bay, just with a restyled steering wheel:



One odd little quirk, all the Brazilian bays from inception in '76 right through to the end, used '68 on Beetle style switchgear instead of German bus style switches:



The link below has lots more detailed pictures, showing all aspects of the final evolution of the T1.5:

https://reginaldodecampinas.com.br/produto/vw-kombi-30-000km/

And that's it for the development of the Brazilian hybrid bay. As of 1997 Brazil would finally start to build an actual T2 bay window bus, the T2C, using Mexico's cast off production line

We'll take a look at that next...

 

Only in 1997, a full 18 years after the end of German production, did Brazil finally get an actual T2 bus, by then in "C" format with the higher roof panel similar to the later Mexican buses. Unlike all Mexican buses since 1988 though, the Brazilian Type 2 didn't use a water cooled engine, instead continuing on with the trusty 1600 aircooled unit. Also, even now, the new Kombi would continue to use the late split screen '64 on, king and link pin arrangement, unlike the Mexican bus that had used ball joints from the start.

The first Brazilian T2C's came as a panel van, standard, and luxury bus. In luxury Carat trim from 1997 to 1998 this was a beaut, a well appointed 7 seater, with a similar interior to the Mexican Caravelle model.



Note the retention of the older style bumpers, an evolution of the bumper style originating way back in the split bus era. Also, the new, larger, door mirrors are now a Brazilian specific fitment, differing slightly from the later Mexican version.






The dash never evolved like the Mexican version, instead staying largely similar to the last German version, but still without any heating levers, fresh air only!:



The 1.6 Aircooled engine had now evolved to an unusual combination of computer controlled fuel rail fuel injection and the retention of mechanical tappets. It had evolved entirely differently to its Mexican cousin, used in Beetles during the same time period, which had single point injection & hydraulic tappets.

The last air cooled engine to ever be used by VW, a strange beast:



By 1999, The Brazilian market got access to the T4 and this then became the default VW luxury minibus, with the T2 getting relegated to just the standard, lower cost 9 seat people mover.



Once again, this only came with what was absolutely necessary. Everything that could be was stripped out, headlining, rear headrests, basic rubber matting in place of carpets, no radio, basic card door panels, one front cab light with no courtesy switches on any doors. Pretty spartan all round.



Note also, in the above picture, the spring mechanism that used to support the tailgate is now gone, replaced by 2 gas struts, as of the introduction of the T2C model in Brazil. (The mexican T2C had maintained the spring set up)

Then in 2006 it finally got updated with a water cooled drivetrain, only because it had to, as it was now impossible for the aircooled engine to achieve new, lower, emission requirements even with it's catalytic converter and fuel injection.

New look front end:



The new engine was dual fuel, Petrol or Ethanol could be used interchangeably:



The new engine had nothing in common with the previous Mexican water cooled 1.8 unit and was a much newer generation low emission 1.4 unit capable of complying with Euro4 and tuned to run on both Petrol or Ethanol. The engine produced 80bhp, more than any standard VW aircooled engine ever fitted had previously achieved. 30% more efficient than the previous engine as well, so when driven carefully it can now return over 35mpg.

Along with the new drivetrain came a revised instrument panel, the speedometer is now digitally driven:



And that brings us pretty much to the end of the evolution of the Brazilian Kombi T2C. It continued pretty much unchanged until December 2013. The link below has lots more detailed pictures, showing all aspects of the final evolution of the T2C in Brazil:

https://reginaldodecampinas.com.br/produto/kombi-std-2014-0km/

The T2's final end worldwide was celebrated with a series of 1200 Last Edition models. Interestingly, these weren't actually the last 1200 to be made, but taken in batches from new production over the last half of 2013 and sent to a specialist coachbuilder to paint and equip to the Last Edition specification. My own Last edition, No. 644 out of 1200 actually left the production line on the 5th September 2013.

Number 1200 of the Last Edition was sent to the VW museum in Germany to add to their collection, but the last ever T2C to be built, a humble, white, standard Kombi resides in VW of Brazil's museum.

The Last Edition added curtains, basic floor over carpets, nicer door cards, a nice 2 tone paint job, different colour seating, (but still basic) a radio, & heated rear screen. Nicer, but still spartan when compared to the earlier Carat models.



Note in this image the second fuel cap, unique to the Brazilian model since the beginning of the water cooled T2C in 2006. It feeds a small tank that holds 2 litres of Petrol that is only used to aid in cold starting when the main tank is filled with Ethanol.

 

And that, ladies and gentlemen, brings us to the end of the story...

VW's final Kombi adverts:




Last wishes, try not to cry!:



Volkswagen Kombi, finally laid to rest worldwide at 10pm, on the 18th December 2013 when the last ever unit rolled off the final remaining production line.

RIP

 

Nice read thanks for the effort spent on this - how is your bus coming along since you purchased it?

 

Great read, thank you. Great to understand the evolution of this much loved animal.

 

Brilliant, brilliant brilliant! Thanks for doing all that research etc.

Ozziedog,,,,,,,,,and now I’m late for work

 

Thanks. My own bus is coming along pretty well, I'm just finishing up some cosmetics at the moment and then I'll be out and about in it this summer. Blog is here if you want putting to sleep:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=780362

 

A couple of further small details I'd omitted from the history...

All Brazilian buses kept a bolted in, removable, rear valance throughout production, whereas the Mexican T2's kept the same fixed rear valance as the German built version.



The very last Brazilian buses also got a central, high level brake light, sometime around 2011, I think.

 

Interesting read that

 

And finally, some thoughts on quality...

Thought I'd cover this as it's often a talking point, and it is indeed an interesting topic with a lot of opinion, misunderstanding, (and sometimes prejudice!) to go along with it! I'm personally in a position of familiarity with my fathers previous 1976 T2, and having been over every inch of a Last Edition Brazilian built Kombi during the last few months, including a lot of dismantling and re-assembly, feel able to give an honest opinion on the matter. I've also experienced both German and Mexican built Beetles.

To many purists, no Type 2 built outside of Germany is a "proper" or even a "real" VW. I've even come across people who seem to think they're a "copy" of the original, built by some other entity other than VW!

Another source of (understandable) prejudice towards Brazilian buses is caused by the growing volume of mainly split screen versions, but latterly T1.5's too, that having been used and abused hard back home, (until almost scrap condition) get bought up cheap, have a quick "lipstick on a pig" restoration with very good filler and paint work, (but sadly little else!) and are sold on to western suckers. The buyers get a "cool" splitty for 20% to 30% less than a good German example. The end result sooner, (usually) or later, is a very unhappy owner with buyers remorse spreading the word about terrible Brazilian "quality"!

The above isn't universal, some very good quality restored Brazilian buses do find their way here, but they usually cost virtually as much as a good German bus.

So let's start with some basics. All Type 2 VW's were built by VW, no one else built them. (We can ignore early local knock down kit 3rd party production for this exercise!) The way they were built, worldwide, was to standards and using materials of their time, from the '50's up to the late '70's. Now this is an important fact to understand, everything built between 1979 and 2013 outside of Germany, was still built using materials and techniques from the late '70's at the latest. In fact, later automation used during production in Germany was largely not used in both Mexico and Brazil, so it could be argued production there remained similar to '50's or '60's German production.

The point is T2 production did not evolve, at all, in line with the evolution of subsequent models of VW's. The move to Zinc plated steels and cavity wax injection that all modern vehicles now get never happened to the T2, ever, anywhere. Safety never evolved either, the late bay crash structure was as good as it ever got.

So the baseline is, by todays standards, all Type 2's are quite dangerous in the event of an accident, and they're all prone to rusting almost everywhere if not looked after very well. Just like all '70's vehicles for those of us old enough to remember the "good old days" of rotted through sills and wheel arches at 6 years old and no such thing as perforation warranties!

Having established the above, there does seem to be a general hierarchy of build quality out of the factory.

1, German built, best attention to detail throughout, due to the latest production automation and a very skilled workforce with a culture of striving to achieve high quality. *
2, Mexican built, still very good attention to detail, limited factory automation, much more hand built throughout, well skilled workforce. **
3, Brazilian built, more average attention to detail, even less automation, a more hand built product using older techniques, a more variable workforce skillset. ***

* Despite this, some production years were extremely prone to severe, premature rusting due to variable metal quality.

** I can't comment specifically on Mexican bus quality, but my experience of Beetle quality (1985) out of the same factory was, it was almost indistinguishable from German quality, and a lot less prone to rust than my families '70's beetles had been! The hand sprayed finish was also superb throughout.

*** My own observations reveal a generally well made vehicle. I'd describe the build as good, but certainly not excellent (by 70's standards!). Due to a "more relaxed" culture, shall we say, compared to the Germans, I suspect "good enough" is probably more of a thing, the result being attention to detail can be lacking in some areas, especially to areas hidden away out of site, when compared to a German build. Panel alignment and jigging during build is also a little more variable too with less precision than a German bus, leading to some panel "rippling" showing when looking down the sides of the bus in the right light, whereas German buses left the factory, almost always flawlessly straight.

Brazilian paint finish can also be more variable than German, as they were all 100% manually spray painted, and I suspect with less time spent on preparation. Small, annoying flaws also seem to be ignored and let through by Brazilian quality control that I'm sure would have been flagged in Germany!

Most Brazilian T2 VW part quality seems to be, give or take, as good as German from what I can tell. Not to be confused with some of the awful aftermarket stuff out of Brazil that has nothing to do with VW!

Mechanically, driveability, and feel is similar to German. The Brazilian gearbox is a hybrid design using a later, reinforced casing, but retaining some internals dating back to 60's split screen/Beetle that are not as robust as those used later on in Germany. These can be broken with heavy use, especially when coupled to the later, more powerful engine, but they are generally fine when used normally by a caring driver.

Body rust, probably the most worrying issue for any Type 2 owner. The Brazilian bus is built for it's local use case and climate, so when used in damp UK weather and our salty winters, will suffer from serious rust issues if not treated properly with rust proofing. Comprehensive cavity wax injection, and underbody coating early on in its life, here are essential. That said, there are a lot of Danbury built Brazilian conversions around, now 10 to 20 or more years old, with many pretty much still entirely rust free. Plenty are having rust issues as well, but again, '70's build. Not many German buses got to 10-15 years old back in the day either, when used as originally intended, without significant rusting in our climate!

On the Danbury topic, sadly a lot of sales during the early 2000's - 2010's, seem to have been to non VW scene types who were sold them as a "cool" classic alternative to a modern T5 camper, and expected to be able to use them year round, with minimal maintenance, under the illusion that as they were new, they were now built more like a modern rust resistant western van... A lot of people who paid Danbury's eye wateringly huge prices came to be very upset indeed after a few salty winters use! Had they been sold honestly, explaining how engine aside, maintenance, bodywork & rust issues would be just like owning a 60's or 70's VW, I don't suppose many would have been sold at all!

To summarise, UK based Brazilian T2 buses that started their lives here are now 10 to 25 years old, German T2 buses are all around half a century old. All of these vehicles were originally built to give an expected service life of around 10 to 12 years before seeing the crusher, a little longer if well looked after. So now, differences in original build quality are largely academic, it's really all about condition when you look to buy one, wherever it's from.

If I had the option of buying a brand new German or Brazilian T2 now?, of course it would be German, in a heart beat, no doubt there would be a huge price difference as well though!

Given the choice of an original condition, rust free late model Brazilian, or a lower end restored German bus of unknown quality hidden under it's shiny paint? Well my avatar gives you the answer to that one... (And I like the quirky weirdness of that very economical and quiet, water cooled engine. Yes, you can all get your crucifixes out now and point them at me. )

 

Interesting read, all I can do is speak from experience and say this was the worst bus I’ve ever worked on and that is many!
I believe Brazilian but somewhere given the early look low lights front and rear.

 

Definitely Brazilian and meeting with my definition of "Lipstick on a pig" I expect. What were the issues you encountered with it?

 

The rear is higher, but the cab is lower as it has a heavy formed headlining that sits lower/squarer over the front seats. I used to be able to drive my German T2's whilst stood up, but couldn't in either of my brazzers because of the headlining.