no one wins wars, everyone looses in the long run, look at us we thought we won ,ha ha. All those people died for what ? they must be turning in their graves,people thought we would have had a worse life , really ? who knows?. Its all very very sad we are supposed to be civilised ? really sorry im cross today it all stinks . breathout
Why should anyone try to impose upon it? Well Democracy is the new Communism...something to be imposed via the barrel of a gun upon those who don't comply. Though there are some exceptions to that rule...
Foreign Policy isn't the same as Democracy.....For all it's failings Democracy is the one truly inclusive creed....it may be slow, it may be flawed, but from a humanitarian perspective it's the best we can achieve, given our inherent differences...we couldn't be arguing the toss, on here, were it not for countless previous generations of people recognizing this fact, and doing something, however small, to further the cause...so in that sense, it's worth fighting for. Forceful aquisition of territory, mining rights and diminishing oil reserves isn't democracy...it's just the strap line capitalists attach to their campaigns to try to make it more palatable to the folks back home...we should be questioning the motives of our leaders rather than pointing the finger at disillusioned fundamentalists
In Carry On Up The Khuber we governed using the threat of no under crackers under kilts. Is this defrockracy at work?* *my first dad joke!
That was the one that featured The Burpers and Bung it in.... China too is moving towards a more democratic system of government...hardly difficult, considering what went before
Afghanistan isn't a nation - outside of the city centres it is a land of tribes - you can't forge that into a nation no matter how much blood and treasure you throw away trying to turn the place into a democracy - we can't even get beyond village/mosque politics in places like Dewsbury so how on earth can we implement it in Afghanistan? Every British life lost there has been thrown away for nothing. It is an appalling state of affairs and the sooner we are out of there the better. It was an Islamic crap hole when we went in, we installed a government which based everything on shariah and it will be an Islamic crap hole when we leave. Saudi Arabia have announced plans to build a $100 million Wahhabi mosque in Kabul - so essentially we cleared the way for one of the most abhorrent regimes ever to spread one of the most abhorrent ideologies ever.
Precisely....leave them to it...but if their chief export is Heroine, we should actively work to provide a market for an alternative source of revenue...rather than attempt to usurp the system by military means... http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/04/17/poppies_or_pomegranates_afghan_opium_cultivation_on_the_rise.html'
Going back to opium production in Afghanistan, I seem to remember the idea that Governments should buy the crop each year and produce morphine for medical use but the major pharma companies lobbied against due to the threat to their profits. This would've drawn the rural population into the Afghan government fold and the ensuring calamity might've been avoided.
There are all manner of alternative sources of revenue but they grow opium poppies because there is a market for it all over the world (not least in Afghanistan itself) and because the Taliban make a fortune from it. We can't fight the Taliban, it is pointless because we always have one hand tied behind our backs - either we fight them on their own terms (which would be illegal) or we just quit the place and ramp up border and customs controls at home.
My mate is in the us army and it's his job to acquire resources be that supply arms or medicine or eradicate smaller opposition to win over the bigger tribes unfortunately these are the ones with the poppy fields...
The Taliban sell poppy seeds and fertilizer to the farmers and guarantee prices for their harvest...but I don't think the situation is as intractable as people believe...if someone comes along with a better offer, the farmers will produce that....(as would I) When The Taliban resort to threats and violence to prevent it, at some point in time, the farmers themselves will suppress it....that's how it has to be IMO...stability has to come from within (with external help to accomplish it) The troops that were there weren't fighting to protect farmers and secure outlets for other commodities...if they had been, the situation now would be radically different
Somehow I doubt farmers would be too happy to stand up to armed militias with the ethics and moral code of a wasp. If we want shut of the Taliban we arm their opposing war lords and tell them to sort it out. It was having a degree of success before we intervened. But I would be happier if we just left the place to it, it's not our fight.
Unfortunately our western governments haven't figured out yet that the best way forward is to ignore and stop fighting the fundamentalist rag heads around the world. When we do that they'll all return to raking the dog Marmite off the strip of sand and rock they call home. Toughen up immigration policies to prevent them from coming into our countries to cause mayhem and jobs a goodun. People who don't have anything to fight for will fight to the death to protect what they don't have... We should have learned that by now.
^^^This......America learnt this lesson in Vietnam eventually^^^ The Afghan government only hold jurisdiction over a small percentage of the Afghani populace........the warlords control the opium harvest and therefore the rural population, which in Afghanistan is the majority population. To win in Afghanistan you would need to control the poppy production and heroin trade, and by proxy put money into the rural economy.......which is totally at odds with the western worlds political stance on the war on drugs, so politicians are caught between a rock and a hard place on this one.......neither would be popular choices with their own electorate so instead they take a slightly ambiguous stance to try to please everyone lol You have to ask yourself sometimes......what would Charlie Sheen do?
Collectively, the western world doesn't have a cohesive policy regarding production of narcotics beyond their own durisdiction...only national and regional policies exist, in relation to trafficking, domestic production and consumption. These differ from country to country, state to to state, city to city etc. If Cocaine is produced in Peru, it's not considered our problem in the UK until someone tries to ship it into the country...this is unbelievably short sighted IMO, hence why those who suggest uprating border and customs controls are missing the point. It doesn't work. A concerted, co-ordinated effort, by those countries in which drug related crimes are an issue, to create a market for alternative commodities would eradicate the problem at source. Billions are spent sending troops to fight wars, in far flung places, with precious little chance of 'success'. Which raises another less obvious issue....War, and the consequences of War, are very good for business, particularly for those involved in weapons development and manufacture, mineral extraction, civil engineering, security etc. (BAe, Haliburton, Lockheed Martin, etc. etc.) These companies have the ear of the policy makers, politicians and government departments responsible for finance. They are also traditionally BIG employers...ie they employ a lot of voters....do you see where this is going? Consider the recent closure of the ship yards in Portsmouth....do you think that decision was made purely on financial grounds or those of expediency? Tell me the incumbent government didn't choose The Clyde to appease ship yard workers (voters) in the run up to the Scottish independence vote... Some office wallah will have totted up the number of potential lost votes in Portsmouth, compared to those on The Clyde, and factored it in to the decision making process. So war and the threat of War suits those who stand to gain from it, be it politically or economically There's no money (or votes) in subsidizing Afghan farmers to grow pomegranates and selling it on to western consumers
Totally......War is big business and very good for the economy....as long as you don't live in the country its being waged in
What people forget is that when we read in the newspaper that "the war in Wherever has cost £30Bn"....that money has actually gone into someone's pockets...we don't print it...it's transferred from one source (Taxpayer) to another....I know it's stating the obvious, but why the f*ck do we put up with it? And Yes....if it wasn't for Camperjam, life would resemble Utopia
