My type 4 engine build...based on AP 1800

Discussion in 'Mech Tech' started by paulandchez, Apr 11, 2015.

  1. MorkC68

    MorkC68 Administrator

    From what I can gather they're like rocking horse doo doo!

    Our motor hasn't got one, from what Ive been told, they aren't so critical on a bus motor? I asked the question a while back on here but I cant find the thread now!
     
  2. This AP didn't have one and neither did my CU one. I too have read that they aren't critical for our applications, but can't remember where now :confused:
     
  3. Windage tray wasn't fitted to bus motors.. 411/2 & 914 only

    Can't be rocking horse poo... I've got at least 3 :lol:
     
    paulandchez likes this.
  4. MorkC68

    MorkC68 Administrator

    Well, that's just Windage Tray Snobbery for you :eek: :lol:
     
    Paul Weeding likes this.
  5. Best not do any hard cornering then ,
     
  6. From what I understand, they can actually cause oil starvation issues... But that's something I was told a while back, but it makes sense if you've got a high revving motor, as it looks like the oil could potentially not make it back into the sump fast enough!!
     
    madpad likes this.
  7. Right.....enough about windage and on with the build :)

    Following confirmation I sealed the cases right, I moved onto measuring the end float. With 3 shims fitted, total movement was 0.11mm so bang on in my eyes :thumbsup:

    Flywheel and shims were then removed and cleaned again. I made sure the crank end and surrounding area were clean, and then applied a thin smear of sealer to the case halves where the oil seal slides in
    [​IMG]

    Then I carefully knocked the seal in trying not to get it skew whiff
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Oh....before putting the seal in, I lubed the shims and installed them!
    Then I put a little lube on the sealing lip to help installation of the flywheel.
    Next I sorted the flywheel. Started by cleaning the outer seal shaft with wet and dry till it was all shiney
    [​IMG]

    then after making sure it was clean, I put a little sealer in the groove and then installed the o ring
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    Then I carefully lined the flywheel up and pushed it into position. Then installed the load spreading washer and 5 bolts trying not to move the flywheel. Had a little trouble with the engine yoke which led to removal and slight modification of it....but soon got back to this point, and then torqued the bolts up gradually, locking the flywheel using a couple of bolts and a massive screw driver!
    [​IMG]

    Then I checked out my clutch, was has only done a few thousand miles so was expecting it to be ok
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    Loads left, so cleaned it with thinners and left to dry. I checked the pressure plate for worn fingers etc, but again this was new when I installed the clutch. So I installed them, using my eye to line up the clutch plate, looking through the engine stand
    [​IMG]

    I also installed the new strainer with new gaskets....but couldn't find my sump plug!!!! Hopefully more on Monday, but for now....:burp:
     
  9. Bank holiday Monday meant more engine work for me :D

    So I turned my attention to the oil pump. I'm fitting a CB Maxi 1 pump, which is designed to be a straight swap for the original ones. I made sure the hole in the case was clean and free of excess sealer, then I dry fitted the pump to ensure it went it! Then before installing I applied sealant to the outer diameter
    [​IMG]

    I then dry fitted the gears and noticed that the drive gear looked like it stuck out slightly. Turned out the key was bottoming in the cam slot, but the gear wasn't pushed far enough down the shaft. I wasn't best please as they aren't exactly cheap, but it didn't take much to press the gear slightly further down the keyed shaft
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    And then I checked the clearance with a straight edge
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    Before coating the gears in lots of lube, fitting the paper gasket under the cover and bolting it all up
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    BTW, the bolts provided in the kit are too long for these cases (you need to remove the original studs....I used the double nut method) so you need to either cut them down or get shorter ones
     
  10. Next I fitted the fan end crank case seal, again using a smear of sealer on the outer surface and knocking it home nice and square
    [​IMG]

    Next I moved onto the new B&P's I bought. no issues fitting rings or getting the pistons into the barrels are they come already complete
    [​IMG]

    They also have arrows stamped onto the piston crowns which point towards the flywheel, so make sure you get the right ones in the right place
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    I decided to measure the deck height, by using an old shim under the barrel, clamping it in place on the case bolts using spacers and then using various measuring tools to give me a few readings that I could convince myself were correct
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    I used straight edge and feeler guages as above, digital calipers used backwards as a depth guage, and also an actual depth gauge with a better base for stability. I wrote on each piston which cylinder they were fitted to and repeated the process on all 4. I'm not sure why I decided to do that, but I'm glad I did as the results showed quite a variation between them. I wrote on each piston the deck height too.
    My next step after asking a question obout the differences, is to measure each barrel to see what the manufacturing tolerances are like, and then buy shims to suit each barrel to minimise the variation so the compression is about the same in each cylinder.
     
  11. I then started to assemble the heads. I've had the seats machined and guides checked, and the shop lapped each new valve in for me and marked each one so they didn't get mixted up. Firstly I cleaned the guides using paper towel (shop had already cleaned them, but I wanted to be sure)
    [​IMG]

    Making sure no deposits were left
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    Then I put a light smear of CV grease on the stem before sliding them in
    [​IMG]

    I then checked the springs. All of these were brand new so I had no reason to doubt they were ok, but you never know. Unfortunately I don't have the kit to check the spring rate, so I'll have to trust them on that. All of the unloaded heights were within 0.1mm so I was happy with that. I then cut a piece of material 1.5" long and checked the distance between where the spring sits in the head and the under side of the retainer when it was installed with the collets (pulled it up by hand). This was a bit fiddly and I'm sure it could be done more accurately, but I'm not building a race engine here. One head measured up ok and no shims needed, so I installed the springs etc (making sure the narrower end was against the head) until I got to the 3rd one....and then I broke my spring commpressor!!!!! :mad:

    I was trying to get away with the one I use for my bike and it wasn't stable enough really....so picking a new one up this week
     
    MarcT512 likes this.
  12. MorkC68

    MorkC68 Administrator

    @paulandchez what torque setting did you use when you fastened down the cam gear to the camshaft, out of interest?
     
  13. You mean the 5 bolts? I torqued them to 18 lb ft and also put a little loctite on too
     
  14. MorkC68

    MorkC68 Administrator

    Spot on Paul, thanks! That's tomorrow nights task sorted, cheers for the reply :D
     
  15. I'm not saying that I'm right, but read loads of different forums and articles on it and that was the general consensus. Because I removed a lot of the head too, I didn't want to go too high. Some say 25 but I opted for 18
     
    MorkC68 likes this.
  16. MorkC68

    MorkC68 Administrator

    we had to machine the bolts down slightly, we now have just over 0.2mm clearance on the oil pump and bolts. The thrust in the camshaft is spot on too, happy days :D
     
  17. Just about to put my flywheel back on so hopefully you can help ... did you replace the felt washer on the flywheel, just that I can see what looks to be the remnants of one in the second picture? also what exactly did you clean the clutch plate with?
     
  18. No I don't believe mine requires the felt washer.....but I could be wrong!
    I just used some cellulose thinners I had lying round to clean the clutch surface
     
    Pickles likes this.
  19. So....the saga continues. People may have read my other post regarding deck height. Long story short is my heads all measured 56cc's and I decided to match the paired barrels in order to ensure the head sat square, but try to get the commpression ratio the same between the 2 sides. I ended up with a ration of 7.2 ish across all 4 cylinders. If people want to know exactly what I did then I can post it up, but since all engines will need different shims etc, I've not bothered here.

    Once I'd assembled, dis-assemble, assembled, dis-assemble......you get the idea, I stripped all the b&p's and cleaned everything thoroughly
    [​IMG]

    I then assembled them all for the final time and installed them onto the case. I put some RTV sealant between the barrels and shims to help get a good seal, then fitted the heads (without the barrel to head gasket) and torqued everything up gradually in a crisscross pattern. Think I did 15, 20 and 23 ftlb increments.
    [​IMG]

    I then started on the hydraulic lifters which were all brand new. They had all drained down and to be honest I wanted to clean out the oil that was originally put in there as I've no idea what it is. So for those who haven't before, this is what you get after taking out the locking clip (some have circlips in them but some just a spring wire clip)
    [​IMG]
     
  20. First stage is to fill up with oil, not too much as it will only get pushed out, but enough to fill below the piston
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    then put the piston back in
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    you need to press the ball valve down in order to get the piston to the bottom
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    then once it's there, use something to hold it in place otherwise the spring will eject it! I used a thin allen key
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    then you need to put the rest of the bits in (as they came out!) and carfully push the top part down whilst removing the allen key. If you don't get this right, the piston will come back up and won't allow the spring clip to fit back in
    [​IMG]
    I used my pillar drill to hold it all in place whilst I fitted the clip
    [​IMG]
     

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