40 years on.......

So , to release violent criminals before they have served their sentence is ok?
Your use of the word “ barbaric “ is way over the top.
If our prisons are full, part sentenced criminals are being released ( with little , if any , psychological assistance) Then what do you propose should be done with those sentenced for violent crimes ?
In an ideal world then yes , incarcerate ( if you believe this is beneficial) in a prison local to their family.
The system is breaking down. I am working class and do not demonise , I am also realistic as to how things are panning out…and it really is not good…….suggestions welcome.

 

Absolutely they are ..but …They are also full !!
Lawyer friends tell me regularly that their clients appearances in court “ for sentencing” are adjourned….the sole reason is that a custodial sentence is expected and warranted but …..there is no room “ at the Inn “.
The system is broken, probably beyond repair without radical change.

 

Around 45% of all violent crimes are alcohol related.

Would your radical change include banning alcohol? Seems at least as good an idea as moving prisons, in fact it’s a much better idea as it would have positive effects on health too.

But it won’t happen.

I appreciate it’s not popular, but criminals families are often the victims too. What about their rights?

 

I can honestly say that they have been coming over in the back of arctic lorries since the mid ‘90’s. I’ve seen them jumping out from in between pallets of paper from abroad, when the lorry drivers open the sides up.

 

There is an empty one in Shelton Mallet, down the road…

 

Your question was why do they cross France to get here….my reply was over a quarter of a million don’t, each year….just as other European countries don’t simply pass the problem on.

It’s the unpopular fact for those who want to paint the people that do come in boats as seeking a lazy life in benefits and free healthcare, and Europe do nothing.

It’s a convenient argument….how do we stop these people from taking advantage of the NHS and the benefits system….make the NHS pay ar service and cut benefits of course!

I wonder who that suits….the migrants or the people that amplify the issue and have their message carried forward by the lazy if thought minority of true patriots here?

You can’t make this stuff up, you really can’t.

The last thing, the very last thing this government and the likes of Farage want is for the boats to stop coming.

 

Nail on head ! The Torys, Reform The Right Wing Media love it it fuels their base & scaremongering garruntees them votes

 

Even if the little boats slow down a bit
They still have the state of the roads to fall back on if all else fails,
We intend to spend fifty eight squillion on mending all the potholes that we should of spent in the first place
That is a sure vote winner amongst the Tory Brexit voting gammons in this country .

 

They must of been cold Bbbrrrrr .

 

I didn’t make it clear but I was primarily referring to the prison system…..though the whole legal / justice framework is creaking.
As for the rights of a criminals family, to what rights do you refer. If it’s the right to family life I would suggest that this if suspended during a prison sentence ( applicable to both the criminal and his/ her family ).

 

I love it - I love the description - it helps that Burton has a beautiful voice, but boy can he paint a picture with it.

My Grandad was a coal miner, and a Bevin boy during the war. He was the gentlest and nicest old boy you could ever meet - he too had bowed legs and black veins in his hands. Like all the old boys from the big industries, he ware a suit most of the time, and at least a shirt - just like in the Lowry pictures.

Apparently you could buy a suit for a couple of pounds - they'd use them for funerals and weddings and then get their moneys worth, hence why you see men in the 30, 40. 50's wearing suits to the beach, fixing cars, chopping firewood - they were getting their value for money. Anyway, I digress.

I know he used to walk or cycle to work 7 miles each way, across the valleys. I know, as he told us in the throws of dementia, that he worked in the kitchens of the Savoy during the depression - we thought he only ventured outside of Wales for rugby games. He hated Max Boyce - the thought he made a mockery of the Welsh.

My Grandad's first language was Welsh - he could understand English, but it was definitely his second language. As Burton said - they carried themselves a certain way did Miners.

The scars from the lost industry are all across the valleys, some quite beautiful like the viaducts now long gone but whose stone stanchions are still there. I walk my dogs along what was once the main railway track from the Ogwr valley to Barry Docks and you can still see the steel and stone bridges, the concrete posts for fencing, some of the old platforms and sidings.

My grandad's old house still has the same slag heap towering over it - which is on the unsafe register along with another 400 ish I believe - which no one wants to fix, so no doubt we'll have another Aberfan or two before the people that made millions do the right thing and fund fixing that legacy. Same for collapsing workings - we are starting to get into the time where the wood pillars holding up the old pits are rotting and collapsing - so more subsidence, flooding and holes.

The coal industry in South Wales was in decline since the 1920's - the anthracite which literally powered the empires ships, steel furnances and a myriad of other uses for a coal that burnt a lot hotter than the average became less and less in demand.

Thatcher and her cohort chose to smash the coal industry within a decade, and she succeeded too. She put in place no alternates for those communities, didn't fix or tidy any of the workings, didn't regenerate a thing. That chopper Tebbit telling people to get on their bike (the same people who rode 7 miles each way to work, and did a 12 hour shift in between) when there was nowhere to ride them too is why people like me will always hate them.

In Wales - she didn't try and break the unions, she tried to break Labour as Wales had never been blue - and boy have they paid the price ever since.

 

So the child of a father who commits a crime is also to be punished? How does that work for a 3 year old exactly, how do you explain that to them?

When you remove the main carer or one of the carers from a family unit it can have a devastating effect on the family - and plenty of studies show it can perpetuate the crime/punishment cycle through generations. Crime isn't like in the films - the whole family isn't often part of some sort of Fagan like cohort who deserve to be punished once their leader is caught. Families are often unaware, some crimes are not carried out by 'rough sorts' who deserve what they get.

I am cognizant that the families of the victim and indeed the victim themselves are paramount - but its simply lazy thinking to conclude that incarcerating a criminal means their family deserve to suffer too - the outcomes of this amplify the problem.

 

Conversely committing a crime should have consequences, if these consequences are inconsequential then where is the “ punishment”. If a criminal has no family he/she is banged up but if he/she has then different rules are applied ?

 

I remember that Norman tebbit remark you would of been out a long time on a bike
Looking for work back then,
I ended up opting for the slavery option,
By going on the YOP scheme £23.50

 

Not sure why you've said conversely - I've not said a crime should go without consequence - I've merely said that the consequence should be the burden of the criminal - not their kids.

Putting prisons in another country means the kids and families are punished further.

That isn't justice.